How can we make this community most useful for Ethereum?

#1

As folks start to filter in to the Community Forum, what are some ideas that you all have to make this community most useful for Ethereum? Why did you join what purpose do you think it can serve?

I’ll start: I love the idea of having a forum focused on user / “investor” and dapp developer perspectives- although I’d welcome participation by core / protocol devs as well. I think bringing the voice of “Ethereum in the real world” to on-going discussions around development and governance should be a priority. This includes thinking about Ethereum (and ETH) not just as a technology, but as an economic asset and public good we all must help to maintain. Finally, I think we should also think about how we can work together to spur and improve real world adoption of Ethereum.

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#2

This is an extremely important thread and I think everyone should contribute so that we can build out our community guidelines and goals.

I agree with everything @DCinvestor said. First and foremost this should be a place where we can discuss the latest developments or “hot topics” in the Ethereum space and give a voice to those who are not on the core devs call. Each thread should be granular enough so that we can start to gauge sentiment around specific topics. From there we can take the most talked about topics to the monthly call and discuss them there in order to form a signal in the overall Ethereum governance process. It’s important we remember it’s just a signal and not an end all be all decision.

I don’t want it to become a place for questions around how Ethereum works as there are many other places for that, including our EthHub Docs.

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#3

I agree with @econoar 's sentiment that this should “feel” like a dev call in the sense all the topics and participants should be vetted to a reasonable degree. I personally feel that all participants in the call should be expected to have a baseline knowledge of the subjects to be discussed. This isn’t to say you need to be an expert but say we’re discussing EIP-1559 I don’t think the entire EIP should be explained.

I think we should be open to carving out time in the calls for EthHub governance when necessary. I know it would likely help me with translation bounties to get a feel for how the community thinks we should go about executing it. Also as EthHub keeps adding more and more features, things will become more complicated and a call like this may help users articulate their experiences better than text-based feedback.

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#4

First I think it would be of great benefit to come up with naming conventions that cover a broad base of topics. As this grows it will be extremely difficult to hunt and peck through all these topics to know where to contribute if it’s not tightly organized. Some groupings that come to mind…

Development - Eth 1X
Development - Eth 2.0
Economics
Governance
Marketing (Feel like the Ethereum Community struggles to message out to broader audience)
Price
Dapps
Jobs/Needs
Education/Reference/New
Events
Etc…

Not exhaustive but a start. Perhaps people in this community can offer to run calls for people to join once a month and capture feedback from the community based on these conversations. All moderators can synthesize the top of mind issues and/or recommendations of the community to Eric who has a conduit into the leaders of the community.

Thoughts?

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#5

Agreed. We have these already with categories though which get assigned when someone creates a post. You can then browse by them if you want. The list could be improved though!

Check them out here.

#6

Agree with all of the above.

As it currently stands, you can consider the forum in a “beta” state as we experiment with finding the best utilisation of this platform (and the call).

The way I see it is that the current two major forums (Eth Research and FEM) are technically and philosophically focused and I’d say this forum acts as a middle-ground of both. In saying that, feel free to discuss anything you would in other forums here but just be mindful that we imagine this forum will attract a different kind of community member (for example, we don’t expect core devs to frequent the forum and any technical discussion is better had on Eth Research).

There will be a blog post next week that formalizes all of our current thinking around what we imagine the forum/call will eventually settle into and we’re looking forward to getting everyones feedback on it!

#7

Just taking a look at the welcome thread, we have a very good mix of users / investors, dapp devs, and even some folks who skew more to protocol dev. I think this diversity should lead to some good discussions.

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#8

Agreed! I think we should focus on the more practical side of things; issues pertaining to adoption and UX, education etc. Basically stuff that non core devs (users / investors, dapp & protocol devs) can help contribute too.

Looking forward to seeing this initiative takes us!

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#9

I totally agree with you @itsmeSTYJ!

I’ve been developing on Ethereum for a year and a half, and now over a year on EOS. I can say I know both networks pretty well. Both from development and community perspective. Being part of both worlds actually helped me to realize where the community management in Ethereum is lacking. You probably know that one of the main powers of EOS is actually its community.

There are three important things that need more attention from the ethereum community: end-users, UX and collaborations

The EOS community cares a lot about its users and the UX. Another great thing is that a lot of devs from different organizations/companies all around the world are collaborating in building a new feature/framework/tool instead of trying to compete and be the best.

I think this is something we could all learn from them. :slightly_smiling_face:

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#10

This is a fascinating POV @ddzhurenov, really appreciate you sharing that here! Could you elaborate more on what it means when a community cares about it’s users and UX? What are the signals you see there that’s lacking in the ETH community?

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#11

Thank you for the perspective. As @zherring mentioned, I’d be curious to hear where you think Ethereum is lacking the most. And to play devil’s advocate, EOS’s “users” are often bots used to pump up the tx count and the emphasis of UX comes at the cost of the user paying hidden fees (“free” transactions, but the dapp costs more to use).

I think EIP-1559 could help make the UX be more intuitive for people. The idea of a base fee makes more sense at a glance than looking up the avg. gas fee. I also think social recovery and wallet’s with varying security models will help a lot. For example, Portis.io seems like a great fit for casual dapp games and logins.

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#13

I think it’s a problem with no easy solution. Fees aside, generally speaking because we’ve got so many developers in the Ethereum ecosystem, it’s just natural that we also have more dapps with bad UX.

But if you just take a look at the top ranked ETH dapp game (MCH) vs EOS game dapp (EOS Knights), you can easily tell from number of users, rating of application etc. which is better so from a UX perspective, their top dapp game already beat ours. Whether their users are real users or bots, I don’t know but there should definitely be more emphasis on UX. KyberSwap is a very good example of UX done decently well.

Like @ddzhurenov said, dapps, wallets etc. should be all be learning from other dapps on how to better their UX, even if they’re from other blockchains. More often than not, I see dapps just trying to compete against each other instead of taking a collaborative approach. It’s human nature to want to be the first, to get the biggest share of the pie but the pie is more than enough for everyone.

Playing devil’s advocate to myself, sometimes dapp developers are often also restricted because of the design of the Ethereum. There are only really so many workarounds they can do and most of them are pretty meh. It’s a trade off they have to accept for deciding to build on the Ethereum chain.

And then there’s also the problem in the Blockchain space in general is that most of these dapps are trying to fix a square peg that is too big for a circle hole but that’s a problem for another day haha. Sorry for the long wall of text!

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#14

You did summarize it pretty good @itsmeSTYJ :slight_smile:

@zherring, we’re living in a competitive world where only the best succeed. And if you want to have a competitive advantage you need to play by the rules (which are the same for each business and industry) The rules are simple but powerful, and ignoring them won’t lead to anything good.

What business wants:

  • to reduce costs
  • to bring new users/clients
  • to make a profit
  • to be able to scale fast

What end-user wants:

  • to have a UX similar to a normal app
  • things to work fast without delays

So why it’s so important to play by the rules?

Users want everything to happen fast and to be simple. A blockchain will reach mass adoption once the normal users start using dApps without even knowing that behind the scenes is the blockchain technology.

So, to return to your question “What it means when a community cares about its users and UX?” - it means that they’re trying to follow the rules in everything they do both from business and developer perspective. “What are the signals you see there that’s lacking in the ETH community?” - for a long time, Ethereum devs were only looking at how to decentralize everything and not following the rules at all which is a huge mistake. I’m happy to see solutions like the Loom Network thinking outside the box and doing something right.

@ChazSchmidt, I’m not sure if you did any research on the “bots” thing or you just claiming it’s true, as well as the “hidden fees”. I definitely can’t agree with the second, but I won’t argue. If you’re interested to learn how the resource model works on EOS just DM me :slight_smile:

I agree with you @itsmeSTYJ about the “restricted design of the Ethereum”. This is the thing frustrating me the most as a developer.

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#15

I see the phrasing “using dApps without even knowing that behind the scenes is the blockchain technology” used often and it seems weird to me. DLT’s most used feature is it’s value transfer mechanisms. I think transfers of value should be pretty clear where that value exists, and when that value is being directly altered.

I think the goal should be less, “without even knowing your on chain” and more, “without the awareness becoming cumbersome”. For instance I don’t find the UI on MakerDAO’s CDP interface to be cumbersome, and I find the interactions with the chain reassuring that I know I’m not accidentally losing all my money.

In EOS the goal is for L1 to serve the purpose of many lower security, lower value transactions. It has the capacity to transfer higher value transactions, but that’s not what its optimized for imo.

Whereas in Ethereum the goal is for L1 to serve the purpose fewer high value high security transactions. It has the capacity to transfer lower values, but that’s not what it’s optimized for. Instead it opts to have those style transactions on second layer solutions like Loom. I think the UI on that realm would seek to be more comparable in “unnoticed-ness”. For instance xDAI Burner wallet is pretty seemless, but at the cost of lower security.

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